Sound

We spoke with Jens Knoop, founder of Knoops, just before the 10th anniversary of the opening of their first hot chocolate store, in Rye back in April 2013.

I was aware of Dungeness because I saw the movie Blue by Derek Jarman. It put Dungeness on the map for me living in Hamburg, interested in art and filmmaking. And then I was pointed at the Sound Mirrors by the artist Tacita Dean. It was a Super 8 movie about the Sound Mirrors; it was very calm, there were a few noises in the background from Lydd Airport, and it was beautiful to watch.

So it triggered me to visit the Sound Mirrors. The drawbridge wasn’t there, but you could talk right up to the mirrors at that time. Moreover, it was illegal because it meant trespassing on private land, and the farmer chased me away. So I got to know Dungeness; eventually, I moved to the South East and opened a business.

Tell us about Jens growing up, and was chocolate your favourite treat?

Jens.  Well, chocolate, I link back to my grandmother. The war generation of my grandparents lost everything during the war. So, treats were appreciated, celebrated and given out occasionally as a reward. So at five o’clock before dinner, I sat down in front of the TV in a big armchair and was given a piece of chocolate. That image is imprinted in my mind. I don’t think it was the taste of chocolate at that time because chocolate wasn’t great back then. It was about the ceremony, the reward connected to my grandmother. For my grandmother, the ritual was probably about her anxiety about loss, treats, luxury, and sharing with her grandchild.

During school holidays, I worked at McDonald’s, a good school; it is all about structure. But I had no interest in food production. I enjoyed eating, and I was exposed to international food. I never thought I would pursue a career attached to that passion for chocolate. I was interested in photography from a technical point of view, a precision man and enjoyed being in control. It was all analogue photography then, controlling film, exposure, printing, and trying to get the best result from the film and paper. So I became a commercial photographer in Hamburg.

I moved over to England, to Bournemouth in 1995, to study photography on a course which was very much art driven. It was an attractive course; I was lured to Bournemouth from Germany because one of my flatmates in Hamburg went over there first. At that time, Wolfgang Tillmans, a German photographer, was studying there. He looked at my portfolio and said I should come over. So I studied fine art photography, then got spat out back into the real world.

Of course, it didn’t make any money, partly because it was that technical dark room perfection. Plus, I was losing my connection to the digital world because I was a craftsman. So, I had to switch to find a way to pay my bills somehow and moved to London.

That led me to do live video streaming for an American company because they thought there was somebody with an eye for composition and lighting, and so on. But it was very technical; it was very much IT more than anything else. So I continued my photography art on the side. I did some commercial work as a still and portrait photographer, but I wanted to be an artist, which doesn’t pay your bills, not when you’re living in central London.

I started as a freelance videographer, which became a full-time job. And then, international travel started because my employers were transmitting live video streams worldwide; Tokyo, Shanghai, Rome, Richmond, everywhere. So it was very exciting that somebody was paying me to travel the world. Also, the work’s subject was consumer research, which I had no exposure to before. It was interesting to listen to the people, how they respond to specific products, their desires, what kind of products they want, and what’s missing in their life. This was one of the first bridges to understanding what people crave and desire and what they don’t.

So that was the consumer side of things; not even chocolate-related, but it gave me an idea that there is a desire for something. The defining moment was after a focus group in Shanghai; I was sitting in the subway system and saw a girl with a premium brand paper bag with an old jumper inside. I thought there was a desire for luxury; they couldn’t afford the luxury product the bag would come with, but they wanted to treat themselves to something.

I lived in central London and tried to find a decent hot chocolate anywhere. Not that I grew up with good hot chocolate in Germany, but I heard through people and advertising that there is an evolving quality chocolate market; that was about 11 years ago. People asked where the beans came from; they wanted to know about percentages, but that did not translate into chocolate drinks. It was either one choice or nothing. There were
a few high-end chocolatiers with a high price tag, which is fair enough, but there was always no choice.

Around this time, my role in the company changed. I got promoted, so I was no longer the boots on the ground. I was no longer travelling to all these exotic places. So the excitement was gone. It was more money and responsibility but a less exciting office desk job. So it was an overnight decision to work out what I wanted to do. Photography had come to an end commercially for me. So I thought, OK, what have I learned? I had endured some terrible chocolates, and I thought I could improve this. Also, unlike eating chocolate, nobody owned that chocolate drinks space in the UK market.

Like photography, I have the same approach to hot chocolate. I’m not trying to impose how people should feel. I’m giving them the facts, a percentage, the taste notes and the origin of the cacao bean. I’m not saying a warm cuddle or anything like that; that comes from social media, from marketing. Everything is much more experience-driven nowadays. When you enter a Knoops store, you see facts. So often, people say they feel like they are walking into a chemistry lab and seeing the periodic table on the wall. My approach is analytical rather than emotional, which is how to offer the chocolates to people.

“My gut feeling was it should work because drinking chocolate has been around for 5,000 years. It hasn’t gone away. It has been explored and developed in certain cultures and countries, but not in the UK, to a better quality level.”

I gave some of my friends hot chocolate, made the way I liked it, as a taste test and asked for feedback. They said it was the best hot chocolate they had ever had. So I thought, I am on to something.

Did the start of the hot chocolate idea coincide with your move to East Sussex?

Jens.  After uni in Bournemouth, I moved to London and pledged never to leave because I thought that was all there was. And now I live in Fairlight, a complete extreme. Outside of the US, the video streaming business was based in Tunbridge Wells, so it was already one hour south, and then we bought a holiday apartment in Camber. So at the weekends, we would be in Camber, then London and Tunbridge Wells in the week. So I was dipping in and out of Rye already and understanding a little bit about the footfall and how busy and not busy it can be on certain days.

A good friend introduced me to Clive Sawyer, the photographer who had his gallery where Knoops now is. So I started talking about photography immediately, and that opened the door. Clive already wanted to expand his gallery and move onto the High Street.

I had a building, so I thought, let’s crack on. I had already missed Christmas, and the weather was starting to warm up. I thought everybody would drink hot drinks anyway during the summer. So I opened on a Thursday with seven chocolate options on the wall, which was already unheard of then. It was the first time anyone else displayed drinking chocolates with a percentage on the wall, and certainly not more than one or two choices. It was usually milk or dark chocolate, and that’s it.

We were talking about origins, flavour profiles and percentages, which were brand new. I wanted to give the customer information, clarity and a neutral description of the product they’re going to purchase rather than a fluffy description. Because I wanted to avoid depicting what they are supposed to feel, that is how it started with different milk options, spices, and so on; I wanted to give the customer choices for the first time.

The opening day was just me because I thought it would be relatively quiet. Someone suggested I would need help on weekends, and she sent her daughter to help wash up. So, of course, I needed help; I didn’t know how busy I would be at the weekends. I got a lot of support from friends immediately, but it was a one-man show initially.

At the start, customers needed help understanding Knoops because it looked like a coffee shop from the outside. They see percentages up on the wall, so there needed to be more clarity. But, I knew I was in it for the long run and was happy to explain to customers repeatedly what a percentage stands for and what a chocolate from particular places tastes like. I knew this was brand new and overwhelming for some people, even though it was only seven then. And some people would embrace it, and they would appreciate choices.

On my very first day, of course, I only took a couple of pounds, and the very first order was a double espresso, and I thought, fine. But TripAdvisor was popular back then, and suddenly Knoops was the number one establishment in East Sussex, which was just surreal. You could see people walking through town with a phone, checking every establishment before entering.

And our big break was in 2015, with a Daily Telegraph article titled Is this the best hot chocolate in the world? By Caslda Grigg. She came in, introduced herself, and said, I’m doing a piece on drinking chocolate. There seemed to be a rise and an interest in it, and can you help me with that? And I said yes, I’ll make you a drink. She loved it and asked who else she should talk to. I gave a list of chocolatiers I admire, and her editor liked the piece and wanted to make it into a more extensive article, so they sent a photographer down. When the article came out, there was a full spread about me and Knoops, which was weird. And that felt like a big jump forward.

Today Knoops is in Brighton, Chelsea, Covent Garden, Kensington, Oxford and Richmond, with more locations on the horizon. How did you develop from one store to a second and onwards?

Jens.  I’m not a business person as such. I knew if Knoops were going to have multiple stores, it would have to be a team effort. Some people approached me, some came close and then it fell apart. So for a second shop, Hastings is too close. Let’s go a little further to Brighton; there’s a good vibe. I could not afford to set up in London.

Then I got approached by now my executive chairman, William Gordon-Harris. He came into the Rye shop; I already knew him as a regular customer who loved to push to the front of the queue, and I loved to make him go to the back of the line. I had no idea what he was up to. He explored the business, the footfall, who’s coming in, how the store looks, customer interaction, etc. William was looking to see if Knoops was scalable. One evening, around three and a half years ago, he told me, Let’s talk about this. He started talking business, so I asked if he could break it down to help me understand what a rollout would look like. William has connections; he began drawing funds and planning where to go. The first store we opened after Rye wasn’t in Brighton; it was near Clapham Junction, in South London. And that was three weeks before the first lockdown.

Lockdown confirmed that we’re doing the right thing. In times like these, people are longing for comfort, a mix between the familiar and the exotic, an escape. Without overthinking, that was my gut feeling; people want a small affordable luxury with some escapism. Plus, chocolate has a physical impact on your body and mind in positive ways.

When we were allowed to reopen, we did immediately on the first day. We witnessed the desire of people to treat themselves; they were OK with being in the queue for one and a half hours on a rainy day for hot chocolate. That possibly means more to me; I’m German and don’t queue.

That was the Wow. OK, let’s carry on. And, of course, setting up the website and then selling the chocolate online. But I always say it’s based on your experience in the store and then wanting to replicate it at home or tell somebody about it and give them a hot chocolate. Plus, on social media, we get influencers and micro-influencers; they talk to certain people and spread the word through their peers.

What is the future of Knoops?

Jens.  Well, we have many different goals. One goal we have achieved is we’ll be opening in Manchester, our first store up north. It’s going to be interesting. Will it be a challenge or straightforward? We don’t know. Suddenly we’ll have a geographic spread, not just the south east because the furthest east we’ve gone is Rye and then Cambridge, and the furthest west we have planned at the moment is Bath. So it is all a nice challenge.

Another goal is going international with Knoops. But first, we need the right partners; we have been approached left, right and centre.

“Germany could be reasonably easy because I understand the palette. Even though my German is awful now, it’s a disaster.”

I’m not very good with languages, for me it’s either one or the other, and at the moment it’s English.

What is your job title at Knoops?

Jens.  I am the founder and a director on the board, and my actual official title is Chocolate Man. Because I make all the chocolate decisions, create chocolates, visit the plantations, talk with the farmers, and so on.

So, now we can travel again, which I initially enjoyed with my previous job, it is perfect. I am responsible for the choices, taste, sustainability, and so on. England is well connected to the rest of the world.

As Knoops has grown and is growing, in terms of the volume of orders, we need to place significant enough orders to be taken seriously. So now farmers are reaching out to me and wanting to work with us, which is a privilege. Working with farmers whose families have been doing this for 200 years, and they reached out to me, having done this for just ten years, feels amazing.

So that’s my 2023 planned plantation visits. We will pass the relevant information on to our customers to clarify where it’s coming from more scientifically. For example, this is the farmer; he harvested the bean, and this is the chocolate made from it. It starts with the bean and chocolate makers. We have some beautiful beans being shipped over from Mexico from somebody I’ve known for eight years.

The future of Knoops is exciting. It’s undoubtedly going much further than I ever anticipated. I’m very much about the moment, the customer’s experience when they drink the hot chocolate. And that’s it; that’s what my focus is.

Knoops hot chocolate is a premium product; it is a little bit more expensive than your average hot chocolate. You can spend between £3 and £6, but it impacts you and makes you feel good. And it’s not buying a new bag or shoes you don’t have the budget for.

Knoops - Expertly Crafted Chocolate Drinks
Tower Forge, Tower Street, Rye, TN31 7LD
Call: +44 (0) 3 333 600 608
www.knoops.co.uk
Instagram